blue_jay: Warrior isn't in the female progression

Bluejay (

blue_jay) wrote,
@ 2005-04-20 00:40:00

Warrior isn't in the female progression
The traditional female life cycle is Maiden, Mother, Crone. Some wymyn want to add a fourth "Warrior" stage. This is silly. According to the CMA Beltaine ritual, the stages of the male life cycle are Warrior, Chieftain, and Sage. I've heard some disagreement about Chieftain, but Warrior seems pretty standard. Now, take Artemis — the "virgin huntress" — as the archetypal female Warrior. What's wrong with saying that she's acting in a male life-cycle stage? It doesn't make her any less a woman; she's just acting outside her gender's "natural" roles.

Women can be Warriors and Chieftains just as men can be Maidens and Fathers. All of these roles are worthy, whatever the gender of the person playing them. But if you're going to say that some things are inherently female, then some things must also be inherently male.

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opheliasavalon
2005-04-20 06:07 am UTC (link)

Last LJ check while J is getting ready for bed brings me to this post (yes I am an addict). More in-depth thoughts may come when I have more than 5 seconds, but I always felt that Warrior wasn't a life stage in a woman, more like a smaller thread that weaves through the other stages. Not all women pass through a Warrior phase. However, some Maidens have Warrior aspects and most Mothers will have a Warrior as Protector aspect. So I'd tend to agree that it isn't a phase in the female progression, but can be a part of the others. Just like the Mother stage is reflected as Fatherhood in the Chieftain stage. If I think about this more, maybe I'd be inclined to say that the 3 male stages have threads in the 3 female stages & vice versa.

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seridia
2005-04-20 06:18 am UTC (link)

I don't know of any scholars who claim that Artemis is a figure dealing with the "feminine" areas or aspects. She, like Athena (the woman of the city) are understood to be acting in a male aspect of the world (hence the fact that they are virginal). People long ago could understand this concept, I'm not sure why we're having such problems with it.

I don't think that warrior fits into the female life cycle, but that doesn't mean women can't explore a warrior side. It's just not part of that trinity.

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neohippie
2005-04-20 01:38 pm UTC (link)

Well, I always thought the "Triple Goddess" idea was artificial and too rigid. What was the guy that first thought up the triple goddess? Was it Robert Graves? Anyway, it's not a pre-Christian pagan concept.

Most real goddesses don't fit those roles perfectly, just as gods don't fit this new triple god idea. As you mentioned, there are several warrior goddesses. Odin is both a Chieftan and a Sage. There are hardly any Crone goddesses at all that I can think of (no, Hecate is NOT a crone!). There are plenty of Father gods, but for some reason that's not in the male aspects. I've heard some guys say that becoming a father was the most important thing that ever happened to them. Then on the other hand, some females never become mothers. And where do gods of ecstacy and fertility like Freyr and Dionysious fit?

I've been thinking a lot about what we talked about on Monday. My mythology does mention gender roles, but on the other hand there are some exceptions, with gods doing female things and goddesses doing male things when they have to (or want to!). I think that reflects real life a lot better. You can say someone is preforming a warrior role or a mother role or some combination of roles, but you can't put people (or gods) into neat little boxes.

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saveena
2005-05-16 06:17 pm UTC (link)

Very interesting subject! I'm sort of butting in and visiting from greeneyedpagan's page. Hopefully my two cents won't be totally unwanted.

I've always associated my self image with Artemis and Athena, but never liked the virginal aspect of their natures. It just seems so wrong to take something that joyous and fun away from women who are physically strong. Is it an attempt to control them? Sort of like saying, "you can be warriors, but not lovers?" I love the idea of being a seductress and a warrior. And I believe that when I find him my mate will be warrior and father.

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	blue_jay 2005-05-16 08:51 pm UTC (link)
	Your two cents are totally wanted. I was trying to say something controversial to start a discussion. On the other hand, you didn't disagree with me. How can I argue if you won't disagree? :P The Greeks seem to have very narrow, and usually misogynistic, ideas of their gods. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	saveena 2005-05-16 10:18 pm UTC (link)
	I can disagree just so that we have something to argue about. Would that make you happy? ;-) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pagan_girl 2005-05-27 05:35 am UTC (link)
	Greetings! It was awesome meeting you guys. Hope to see you again soon. Blessed Be. ~ Steph (Reply to this)

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